The Every Day Christian Podcast
The Every Day Christian Podcast
85 | Unapproachable Pastors: You CAN'T Ask Questions!
Ever felt like you're navigating a spiritual maze with no guide in sight? That's the quandary facing many when church leaders seem distant and questions about faith go unanswered. Join me, Jonathan Rich, as we tackle the sensitive issue of approachability in church leadership. We'll contemplate why some pastors become unintentional gatekeepers to spiritual growth, especially for youth, and how creating a welcoming environment for queries can ignite a deeper faith journey. Our conversation extends an open hand to leaders and congregants alike, underscoring the profound impact of open dialogue in our spiritual communities.
It takes courage to admit our flaws, and even more to lead by example. This episode peels back the curtain on the authenticity that pastors must embrace to cultivate trust and genuine connections within their flock. We'll discuss the consequences of projecting an image of infallibility and the transformative power of humility and receptiveness to feedback. As your host, I'll share the conviction that leadership and vulnerability walk hand in hand, with the hopes of inspiring both clergy and members to foster relationships grounded in transparency and inclusivity.
Navigating life's complexities can often leave us seeking counsel, yet unsound advice can do more harm than good. Our discussion turns to the delicate balance between spiritual wisdom and practical guidance, addressing the needs of those grappling with real-world challenges like mental health and past traumas. You're also invited to our upcoming virtual class, a space where young believers can safely explore their faith-based questions. This episode is an invitation to church leaders to lower the barriers and to congregants to find the support they need – together, we can build a church that's not just a building, but a sanctuary for all.
Hey everybody and welcome to the Everyday Christian Podcast, where we apply scriptural principles to everyday Christian lives. I'm your host, jonathan Rich. My co-host, sean, is on vacation this week right now, so he's not with me tonight. If, for some reason, you can't hear the audio, let me know in the chat and I will try to fix that. Of course, this is only like the third time we've went live, so obviously there's some kinks and things that we're trying to work out. It seems like every time we do a live there's something that goes wrong, so please bear with us and we're going to try to push through it here tonight.
Speaker 1:I wanted to tell you before we get started. I wanted to tell you about these awesome tumblers. You probably can't see them very well in the light. I'll try to hold it up to the camera there. The Everyday Christian Podcast Tumblrs. We are selling these for only $25, shipping included. It has our cool logo on it. We also have some different tumblrs with different sayings on them as well. Please check out our Facebook if you want to see more. They're $25 at shipping included. The proceeds obviously go to support our show and if you would like to purchase one, send us a message on Facebook, youtube, tiktok I don't care where you send it to us. The Everyday Christians at gmailcom is our website, if you'd like to order those.
Speaker 1:I want to also make an announcement about our upcoming virtual youth class. It is free to join and it will be starting in the next few weeks. So if you're a youth member or someone between the ages of 15 and 35, I kind of pushed it a little bit Usually they say about 13 to 30, but we're going to go with 15 to 35. And if you have questions about God or the Bible or just personal questions that you're struggling to find answers for, please, you know I'll let you know. This class is for you. Please join that class. The slot for joining us is quickly closing. We have had several sign up and there are several more who are wanting to join. So if you have questions like how does God or what does God feel about tattoos and piercings, or how or why do I need to speak in tongues, or how do I connect closer to God, or any questions in general about the Bible, again about any personal things, please let us know by messaging us or clicking the link that I'm going to provide in the comment below after this episode closes, and this takes me right into the episode and directly correlates to the class that we just discussed. The title of this episode tonight is Unapproachable Pastors Unapproachable Pastors.
Speaker 1:My wife and I were leaving the missions conference in London, kentucky Really loved that conference, enjoyed being a part of that, and we were driving on our way home. It's about a 12 to 13 hour trip. If you have kids it's a lot longer. We typically end up splitting the day or splitting the time and driving halfway, staying in a hotel and then driving the rest of the way. But my wife and I were sitting in the car and we were discussing different pastors and different questions that people had for pastors. And something that was sort of discouraging is we talked about how a lot of leaders pastors, preachers, evangelists, missionaries are just not approachable. They're just not people that seem welcoming. Now a lot of them are. I just want to let you know there are a lot of pastors and a lot of preachers that are welcoming and are loving and are caring. So don't get me wrong when I say that, but a lot of times several of them are not, and I know over the last few months there's been several talks, messages, teachings and blogs that have discussed members, especially youth members, who have been searching for answers to some of the deepest questions of the Bible, even searching for answers that I feel like aren't very deep questions, but they just don't know how to search, research and find the answer to those people, and youth ministers have been looking for answers to their questions about man-made traditions or out-of-context doctrines. Though several of them just get by with a feeling or an emotion and just continue in this walk, many of them eventually begin to apply logic and reasoning to what they are doing, how they are living, why they are not doing certain things, and they begin to question everything all at once. At least that's what happened to me, at least that's what I went through.
Speaker 1:Let me start this podcast by saying this there is nothing wrong with asking questions, and if you attend a church where questions are prohibited or shut down when they're asked respectfully, then you aren't a part of a church you are part of, or the makings of, a cult. I'm going to repeat that there's nothing wrong with asking questions If you have a question about the Bible, if you have a question you're unsure about, there is nothing wrong with that. But if you attend a church where questions are prohibited, shut down when they're asked respectfully, then you aren't a part of a church you are part of, or a part of the makings of, a cult. I say respectfully because there is a correct way to ask questions and there is an incorrect way. An example would be asking your pastor a question out of the public earshot. That is correct. Asking everyone else and their mother about what the pastor said is not. There is nothing wrong with asking questions respectfully.
Speaker 1:Several of you have pastors who are approachable, who can be asked anything, and you should thank God for that. That is the mark of a true leader. I'm thankful to say I feel that my pastor is someone I can talk to about anything. I have leaders in my life that I feel I can share anything with and praise God for that. But several of you have pastors who are unapproachable, who you still have the heart and courage to question, but it doesn't get anywhere. That is the mark of a person with a title and nothing more. Then there are some of you who have pastors who are unapproachable but you don't have the heart or courage to approach them for various reasons, one being that it wouldn't matter anyway.
Speaker 1:There was a foolish statement shared a few months back from a preacher. I'm not going to name preachers' names, I don't care, and I'm sort of paraphrasing this anyway, but he basically said this the gist of his thought was people are claiming to have questions and that we turn them away, but no one has ever asked me anything. That was the statement that he made and I want to tell you, if you're the preacher that said it, if you're someone who has said something like it, I want to tell you this that's not because they don't have questions, that's because you're unapproachable. I know your pride hurt a little bit just now. I know you think you're the cat's meow. I know that you aren't used to receiving correction or that you aren't used to someone telling you that you need correction, but the reality is that there are people leaving our churches, leaving your denominations, leaving your fellowships, because every time they have a question about something significant, you play it off like it isn't a big deal or you give off an attitude that is repelling.
Speaker 1:Before you say that I don't understand what I'm talking about because I'm not a pastor, I just want to share with you. I've been under several pastors. I have assistant pastored. I have pastored. I am currently a youth pastor, so I do have an idea of what I'm talking about. Of course I don't know everything. If you joined here and think that I think I know everything, I'm just going to. Of course I don't know everything. If you joined here and think that I think I know everything, I'm just going to shut you down.
Speaker 1:Right now I don't know everything, but here are a few of the top reasons why you are not approachable as a pastor. Number one it's because you make yourself unavailable. You make yourself unavailable. You fill your schedule with different things and put no effort to listen or talk to your people. You schedule camp meetings, revivals, conferences, sunday dinners, church cleanups, church outings, but you don't set time aside for your people church outings, but you don't set time aside for your people. You don't schedule sit-downs or have lunch with or even have unscheduled events or time with your congregants. I understand if you have a thousand people on your congregation, but I have a feeling that most of you who are listening to me probably have anywhere between 50 and 300. I understand some of you have several people, but even letting your people know that you have a cell phone and can be reached and being consistent with that, as much as more than what most people do.
Speaker 1:Being available to your people is one of the most important things that you can do. It's even more important than having a hundred revivals a year in hopes that God will get a hold of them and change their way of thinking. Being available to your people who have questions, who have concerns, who need answers, is one of the most important things that you can do. It's even more important than having a hundred revivals in a year in hopes that God will get a hold of them and change their way of thinking. In hopes that God will get a hold of them and change their way of thinking, you need to make yourself available to counsel people. You need to make yourself available to help your sheep who are struggling. You need to have an open door policy that starts from the deacon all the way down to the first time church member. You need to be available in order to be approachable.
Speaker 1:The second reason why you are unapproachable is because of the way that people perceive you. It's because of the way that people perceive you or the way that your congregation portrays you. It's because of the way that people perceive you, or the way that your congregation portrays you. You are looked up to by many of them subconsciously, as some sort of God. Some of that is their fault, but most of that, or rather some of that, is your fault.
Speaker 1:If you have given the appearance that you can do no wrong or that you have never sinned in your life since you were saved, then you have given that perception to people. If you have preached messages to your congregation that have been tailored to fit this narrative that you are a hardcore, sin-free, guilt-free, turn or burn. The devil is a liar preacher then you have given this perception to people. You have given people the perception that God is on the throne, jesus is at the right hand of him and that you are on the left hand of him. You have given your church the perception that everything on the platform is nothing short of perfection. And if you even want to grace a step closer to the platform, you better at least look the part. Your pride does not allow you to be imperfect.
Speaker 1:I want to tell you something unapproachable, pastor. It's good that people know that you struggle. It's good that people know that you have shortcomings. It's good that people know that you are an open book. Some of you say you're an open book, but when push comes to shove, when things begin to happen, you hush, hush and cover things up. It's good that people know that you are not God, that you are not Jesus and that you are not perfect as a pastor. It's good for you to let people know that you are not always right. You need to hear that. I remember to repeat a lot of stuff here tonight. It's good for you to let people know that you are not always right, that sometimes you are wrong, that sometimes you have made wrong decisions. It's good for you to let your congregation know that you have faced temptations and sometimes did not come through victorious. Let me get on this for a moment. It's good for you to be consistent everywhere that you go. It's not good for you to act a certain way in church, act a different way in public and act a different way at home.
Speaker 1:The disingenuous pastor is hurting people who want to know more about Jesus, god and the Bible, and that is how you have portrayed yourself. Just be real with people. Just be real with people. You think that people want to converse and confide in pastors who act like they are spotless. Well, god is looking for a church without spot or wrinkle. Yes, but that's what Jesus did, not that. What you can do or did, you must learn to be a servant. I was listening to a podcast episode the other day with Dave Ramsey and he mentioned a true leader is not one that pushes, but one that pulls. It's not one that demands, but it's one that serves. Cult leaders are narcissistic and make everything about themselves Humble. Leaders are servant and do their best to help those they are serving.
Speaker 1:You're unapproachable because of the way people portray you and perceive you, and a lot of that is because of you. Number three, the reason why you are unapproachable is because you are not coachable. Because you are not coachable, it's your way or the highway. You're the pastor of the church. What you say goes. If anyone comes against it, then they are sent from the devil. Stop it. If anyone comes against it, they're sent from the devil. Really, stop thinking that you have all the answers. Stop thinking that you have arrived. Stop thinking that your title somehow gives you magical powers that makes you reach the unattainable, or reach what Jesus reached. Your title may be an ego boost, but there are lives at stake. There are people who are leaving God, let alone the church because you have not only made yourself unattainable, you have made Jesus appear to be unattainable as well.
Speaker 1:Learn to ask for help. Learn humility. Don't avoid constructive criticism. Welcome it. Don't take advice from someone you don't like and just toss it to the side. Have an ear open for everyone. Sometimes they're right. I've had people tell me stuff that I did not like and I mulled over it and I complained over it and it hurt me and then two days later I realized they're right and the only reason I didn't listen to them is because I don't like them. Admit when you are wrong. I can't do that. I'm a pastor and people look up to me to always be right. No, they don't. They look up to you to always be accountable, and humbly accountable.
Speaker 1:One of the coaching methods that we have at my current job is listening. Don't just listen to respond or listen to hear yourself talk, but listen to understand. Listen to the reason behind the question, listen to the reason why they are asking. Don't just listen to a reason. Don't just listen to a question and think up in your head reasons why they're asking it. And think up in your head. Well, I know why they're wondering whether or not they can wear shorts. It's because they want to be immodest. Well, I know why they're wondering whether or not they can have tattoos and piercings it's because they want to be full of the devil and do things that are wrong. Listened to understand. When was the last time you just listened to someone? When was the last time you heard what they had to say or wanted to learn something? Many pastors, evangelists, missionaries, ministers and teachers all have the ability to speak, but not many of them have the ability or desire the ability to listen.
Speaker 1:Be coachable. You are not always right. You're not always right. Sometimes you're wrong. So you're not approachable because you aren't coachable. Fourthly, you're not approachable because you aren't coachable. Fourthly, you're not approachable. This is going to hurt you, but you're not approachable because not everyone is a part of your clique. You're not approachable because not everyone is a part of your clique.
Speaker 1:I understand having a board. I understand having an associate pastor. I understand having a song leader. I understand having a youth leader. I get that there are people you cannot allow in the place of leadership.
Speaker 1:But how are you with your other congregants? Do you have and play favorites? Do you have family members that you tend to more? Not talking about your son, your wife or your daughter, not talking about your husband, not talking about people that live in your home. I'm talking about distant relatives. I'm talking about people that you've maybe known for a while. Do they get special treatment because of that? Do you go out to eat with those people all the time? Do you spend social time with them all the time? Do you sit at Sunday church dinners with them all the time? Do you only ask them to sing a special or preach? Do you only call or text them and tell them you are praying for them?
Speaker 1:I'll tell you why there shouldn't be favorites, because that person that isn't on that favorite list is usually the one that you lack trust in. It didn't start with lacking trust, but it ended up that way. It's usually the one that you talk bad and gossip about. I know you're a preacher, you're a pastor. You don't talk bad and gossip about anybody. I also know that that's not true. It's usually the one who is your favorite that can convince you to dislike the one who isn't your favorite.
Speaker 1:I'm going to move on from there. There is no room for cliques in church. Yes, jesus had disciples who were closer to him, who he was training to do a work for him, but he was also surrounded by others who wanted to learn from him as well, and he also rebuked his disciples at times who were judgmental of others. I have seen church members which, by the way, is a way to show others that he wasn't a part of a clique I've seen church members who weren't a part of anything in the church outside of attending because they did not want to put in effort to try and join your clique. I have seen church members who eventually left because they didn't feel good enough to be included. I've seen church members give up trying to connect to their pastor because their pastor has a type and they don't fit that mold.
Speaker 1:Get rid of cliques, get rid of clicks. Give all of your people the understanding that you are pastor of all of them, each of them, even the ones you don't really like, even the ones that hurt you, even the ones that fail you. You know, a lot of times we get rid, give up, let go of people, hurt people, talk bad about people because they also have not arrived. They've also made mistakes. They've also failed you Guess what? You're still the pastor of those people as well. So you make yourself unapproachable because not everyone is a part of your clique Number five. You make yourself unapproachable because of how you mishandled a situation prior or previously.
Speaker 1:You have had people seek counsel from you or seek advice for questions that they were grappling and, instead of offering empathy and understanding, you offer judgment, rigid doctrine or dismissiveness. Maybe you have had people seek counsel from you and, instead of admitting you didn't know how to handle it or admitting that you needed time to think it over, you offered a genetic or cliched response or an answer. Perhaps, instead of keeping the conversation or question confidential, you told others about it and breached that trust. Instead of being a beacon of hope for people, instead of trying to find the correct and biblical answer or answers, you cut people off, told everyone of what was said or gave an answer based off your own feelings on a matter.
Speaker 1:You want to know why people won't approach you anymore. It's because you keep mishandling them when they approach you in the first place. It's because you keep giving them what you feel is the right answer instead of what is the right answer according to the Bible. Perhaps you gave an answer to someone who trusted in you, but they later found out that you either didn't know the answer and made it up, or you didn't genuinely seek the answer and help them find it. Maybe you mishandled how you dealt with a situation with one congregant and that caused the other congregant to lose faith in you as well one congregant and that caused the other congregant to lose faith in you as well. Pastors, teachers, preachers, leaders you make yourself unapproachable because of how you mishandle someone who approached you before and then six and finally, this one's probably not going to go over so well, but most of this podcast probably won't anyway. But the sixth reason why you're not approachable is because your conversations are centered around spiritual things but never practical things. Because your conversations are centered around spiritual things but never practical things. Now you're really going to fall out with me, but hear me out.
Speaker 1:People are looking for practical advice. People seek knowledge more than they seek God, because they have no knowledge of how to seek God. I'm going to repeat that People seek knowledge more than they seek God because they have no knowledge of how to seek God. They were never taught, they were never showed those things. They were never shown how to pray. They were never shown how to be hospitable. They were never shown how to work outside of the church and behave outside of the church.
Speaker 1:You were sitting at the pew talking with others around you and you only talk about who got saved, who ran the aisle, what chapter of the Bible you read, what sermon you preached, what happened when you prayed. You're eating lunch with some of them or working at the church and talk about things that God did in the past or how many people were saved in this service here and there, here and there. All of those things, by the way, are great things, but what about practical speech? What about practical lessons? Teens are struggling with depression. Why not talk about that sometime? You're scared. Young adults are struggling to know where to go and what to do. Why not talk about that? Why not talk about how to find the will of God?
Speaker 1:People are wondering how they can handle someone who has wronged them. Why not talk about that? Why not bring that into it? Kids are struggling with anxiety. Kids are struggling with drug abuse. Kids Youth pastor here, remember, hello, youth pastor. Young people are struggling with alcohol and drug addiction and all that you want to talk about is how Susie Q got saved 15 years ago and is somehow miraculously still in your church, say, 15 years ago, and it's somehow miraculously still in your church. People are wondering how they can mishandle someone who has wronged them. Why not talk about that? Get into the spiritual bubble where everything is great, spiritual things are happening all around us, when, in reality, for some people, things are not great, things are terrible, they are struggling, they are hurting and all you care about is a lesson you taught in Sunday school Be practical, be open, Be willing to help those who are hurting, be willing to talk about things that no one ever talks about.
Speaker 1:We did an episode last year. It's our number one listen to episode. If you're listening, you're live here. Go check out that episode. You can find us on Buzzsprout or any podcast platform of your choice. But our number one episode that we have ever done on this show is titled Childhood Sexual Abuse and we talked about different ways to help overcome that or what you can turn to. But the surprising thing about it is that we had several church members and pastors and leaders try to stray us away from talking about those things, even though it was something that needed to be talked about.
Speaker 1:I want to tell you something If you take this approach of being open with your congregation. Of letting them know that you are not Jesus Christ. Of letting them know that you're available. Of letting them know that you can be coached, that you can be wrong, that you can learn things. Of letting them know that we aren't in a clique or a part of a clique. Of letting them know that you're sorry for how you mishandled a situation prior. You start talking about those things. You start addressing issues that people don't address or that pastors don't address. I guarantee you you're going to have others that are against you. You're going to have congregants that leave you. You're going to have friends that you thought were going to be on your side, no matter what backstab you and talk about you, but guess what? You're going to help a lot more people than those that are leaving you. Be open to address situations you never thought you'd have to address. Just because you never thought that you would see a day where kids, teens and adults are struggling like they are. Does not give you any excuse to turn a blind eye and pretend like there's nothing that can be done short of prayer. God gave us science. God gave us logic. God gave us the ability to learn and teach new things. God gave us the ability to go through things that are taboo in church, that we can help someone else who is facing those things.
Speaker 1:You're listening to this episode and you feel like I've hit some of the points that you've dealt with, or hit some of the points that you've dealt with, or hit some of the points that you have portrayed. You haven't been the most approachable pastor. Guess what? Perfect time to change right now, perfect time to put your money where your mouth is. You say I want to see church growth Great, be approachable. Many, many, many churches who are growing right now, who have congregants that are getting helped and blessed and touched by God, are there because there are pastors and people in leadership who are not perfect, who never claim to be perfect, who don't portray perfection, who are humble and not prideful. The unapproachable pastor. The unapproachable pastor. I have so many more I could go over. I could probably write a book about it.
Speaker 1:I want to thank you all for listening. Thank you all who have attended, joined in Again. Go message us if you want a podcast. Let me just turn that the right way. The Everyday Christian Podcast is up $25. That includes shipping.
Speaker 1:If you are wanting to listen to our podcast. You can find us by searching the Everyday Christian Podcast, that's the Every and Day Christian Podcast, or separate the Everyday Christian Podcast on the platform of your choice. There it is. I spelled that and typed it just now as we were doing this episode. Or you can find us on Facebook. You can find us on TikTok, you can find us on Instagram. You can find us on just about any platform you want. We're on Twitch, we're on YouTube, we're on Facebook by searching at podcast the number for him at podcast the number for him. I at podcast the number for him at podcast the number for him.
Speaker 1:I want to thank you all for joining us. I pray that something along here helped, something along here challenged you. If you have a question about any of this, please message us, please leave us a comment, please share this. And again, if you want to be a part of the virtual class, we are about to start that up here in the next few weeks. It's starting to really make some traction. A lot of people are joining. We have limited availability there. So if you want to join that class, please message us and let us know. And, like I said, you're listening to the Everyday Christian Podcast. We apply scriptural principles to everyday Christian lives. Thank you and God bless. Thank you.
