Podcast4Him
Where we apply scriptural principles to every day Christian lives.
Podcast4Him
93 | Biblical Roles Of The Church
****THIS EPISODE WAS RECORDED PRE-DEBATE EPISODE (93)****
Christians often reduce church to a Sunday experience where pastors perform and congregants consume—a model drastically different from Scripture's vision. The biblical church functions through multiple roles working in harmony, not through one person's efforts alone.
While pastors hold significant responsibility, their qualifications extend far beyond preaching ability. True pastoral leadership requires humility, prayer, compassion, and consistent love for people both inside and outside church walls. As Jonathan shares from personal pastoral experience, it's about ministering to real needs on Monday through Saturday, not just delivering powerful sermons on Sunday.
Deacons, from the Greek word "diakonio" meaning "through the dirt," play an equally crucial role in church function. Far from being mere money counters or decision-makers, they represent the serving heart of the church. Through their often unrecognized work—greeting visitors, caring for facilities, or quietly ministering—they demonstrate Christ's love in tangible ways.
Most powerfully, the podcast challenges every believer to recognize their essential role in God's kingdom. Using the analogy of a car engine where tiny spark plugs and gaskets are just as crucial as larger components, even the smallest acts of service—a kind text message, an encouraging word, a moment spent welcoming a visitor—contribute vitally to building God's kingdom. As Brother Sean shares about "Brother Hugh" who keeps popsicles stocked for neighborhood children, these seemingly minor gestures often make the most significant impact.
Whether inside church walls or in everyday interactions, someone is always watching your example. How does your behavior reflect Christ when you're ordering at a restaurant, shopping at a store, or discussing controversial topics online? The consistency of your faith may be the exact testimony that draws someone to Christ.
Proclaiming the gospel, helping individuals and ministering to individuals in need. I just mentioned that. I'm going to mention it again. If your pastor is the only one proclaiming the gospel, you are not being a follower of Christ. You're listening to the Everyday Christian Podcast, where we apply scriptural principles to everyday Christian lives.
Speaker 2:I'm John Rich and I'm Sean Slogin. Y'all have to forgive me. I just found out this was live we are doing a live episode.
Speaker 1:It's good to be with you all. We were going to try to do an episode on Monday or a live episode on Monday and I got sick with the bubonic plague or something. I'm not really sure what it is Bird flu.
Speaker 1:Yeah, bird flu, rat lungworm disease, I don't know All of the above had sort of a difficult time pretty much just laying in bed for like four days with fever and coughing and all that mess, and I know some of you who are listening and some friends of ours have experienced the same thing. So we pray for you that that, uh, you get healed quickly. It was probably one of the worst, worst sicknesses I think my family as a whole has been through uh, but we're here and now he's here doing a podcast right next to me telling me.
Speaker 1:He still doesn't feel good coughing, all, overoughing, all over Sean the entire episode. So if I do cough or clear my throat, that is why Don't go with me to eat tonight afterwards.
Speaker 2:We have a tradition. We have a tradition where we go eat afterwards and this guy won't do it.
Speaker 1:And I told him. I said and you guys can hold me to that, while you're listening to this podcast, podcast that I'm going to go home and go to bed right after this. So thankful for everybody that has joined us that's listened in, thankful for the last episode. I think we had several listeners' comments, questions on there. Really awesome to see there is an episode we'll be doing two weeks Actually it will be a week from'll be doing two weeks.
Speaker 1:Actually, it will be a week from Monday. This coming Monday we will be doing an episode on a debate between Nathan Mayo of Berean, holiness, and then Holiness Evangelist Luke Beetz, about doctrine standards and the gospel. You will not want to miss that debate. It is going to be here at 7 pm on February the 10th, that is, 7 pm Central Standard Time. On February the 10th. It is going to be the debate of the century. I keep saying that. I have no idea if that's accurate, but it's really exciting.
Speaker 2:Four people are going to listen. I have no idea if that's accurate, but it's really exciting. Four people are going to listen.
Speaker 1:No, we're excited for it. Yes, very excited and ready to see what God has in store there. Let me hide that Christian podcast. So, yeah, if you have any questions for that, I'll that you want the debaters to discuss or answer during the debate? Please message us or put a comment in the video below or any. I think we've had several posts on Facebook that we have had on there for people to leave comments. If you do have a question during that or for that debate, please leave us a comment and question and we will submit those for you.
Speaker 2:Yes, and we do understand that doing debates like this is not always fun. It's fun for us. Some people act like it's not fun. I'll put it that way. We've been getting some very positive feedback, some not so much. We want everybody to understand this, though.
Speaker 2:We're not doing this podcast to tear one side or the other down. We're not doing it to try to make anybody look like fools. We're doing it to try to help and encourage other people. Yeah, if, for whatever reason, this comes up and you hear something from Nathan Mayo and you're like, hey, that was really good, great, that's what we want. If you hear something great from Luke Beetz awesome, that's what we want. We're doing these things to help people, try to encourage open communication, open debates, open communication, open debates. Some feedback we've been getting has been kind of questioning and targeting others. I'm just going to go ahead and say it. I didn't tell him I was going to say this and that's not what this is about. We're not doing it to target and take anybody down. We're doing it to try to encourage people to dig deeper, find answers, get help, and this is one way we're doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it opens dialogue. It opens the yes, the feedback loop. It opens communication between parties. I think it it. You know we've had a lot of, like you said, we've had a lot of opposition, but we obviously don't really care. We're still going on with it. So I hope you all are excited about it at least as much as we are.
Speaker 1:I wanted to introduce this episode. It is sort of a different episode because we're showing the biblical role of the church. We're showing different offices in the church. We're showing how they should be, how congregants should be, what that looks like, is it authoritative, is there a hierarchy, etc. So we're going to talk about that a little bit and obviously, during the episode we are live. If you have a question during the episode or you have a comment during the episode that you would like for us to read, then please. You know, obviously, if it's G-rated, we've had a couple of non-so G-rated ones, but we can go from there. So I wanted to first start off with talking about the church hierarchy and talking about that definition. You know, if you think about church hierarchy, did we even do our intro right? I think yeah. Well, I don't think we did. We are talking about the biblical order of the church. We did.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the Everyday Christian Podcast. This is Jonathan Rich, I'm Sean Slogan, and today we're going to be talking about the biblical order of the church. We did yes. There you go, I think we missed that.
Speaker 1:Praise God. We touched on it, but didn't quite handle that at the beginning, because I threw Sean off by saying 10 seconds before hey, we're doing a live episode.
Speaker 2:I'm over here like trying to get myself prepped and make sure my lines are all right, and then I'm like wait, we're doing live, and then we totally lost it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was over for him. If you think about hierarchy within a church, the first thing I myself think of is the Roman church. You know Roman Catholic church you think about like priests and bishops and archbishops and cardinals and the Pope. Obviously, that's just an example. I don't celebrate or worship the Pope or look up to him in any way. I don't look up to archbishops and et cetera. Yes, Sean, clearly does, and if you do, obviously we're not dogging you for that. But even outside of just that, you look at that structure. There are several Protestant churches who maintain clergy or bishops but they reject that idea of a pope. And even independent and non-denominational churches believe in self-governing, local congregations with no external hierarchy. So they do have structure, they have pastors, but they have nothing external sort of leading them.
Speaker 2:And then I mean there also are the others that have the pastors over it. I know I'm interrupting here. No, you're good, but do have other structures set up, much like your church South Heights. Yeah, a lot of the assembly Church of Christ, churches like that have the pastors, but the pastors actually have somebody to answer to as well, right In those hierarchies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, kind of accountable to something higher up or always having something accountable above them, but which one of those really aligns with Scripture? And I think that on the onset of this episode, I think that it's important to say that there's not really a Scripture in the Bible that says if your church does not have X, y, z, then your church is going to have destruction. But there is pattern, I believe, in the Bible that we can all glean from and pattern our churches after. There's pattern that we can pattern our churches after. So I want to look at that biblical model of church leadership. It mainly talks about model of church leadership. It mainly talks about there's other things or offices, I guess you can say in the Bible.
Speaker 1:We could talk about evangelism or evangelists and we could talk about apostles and prophets, but two of the main offices that the Bible discusses are elders and deacons. If you look at Acts 14 and 23, you know for some Bible reading for you guys at home, or 1 Timothy 3, 8 through 13, you're going to see those two roles elders and deacons. Now, the term elder when you read that I think, at least in my finite mind I think some old guy you know, someone who has wisdom and someone who is older. Bless you, brother Sean. Again, we are alive. So when you think about elder, you use that term and that's sort of what you think, but in reality in the Bible, when the word elder or bishop or pastor is there, those words are actually used interchangeably, meaning they refer to the same role.
Speaker 2:You know what I found out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm interrupting again. Yeah, you're good that a lot of times elder was interchangeable, but there actually are some instances so I'll get back up in the mic. There actually are some instances where elder and pastor meant two totally different things. Yeah, so don't just read it and take it at that. Some of that may have a little bit of studying. That goes into it. Yeah, much like pastors, or I think I said something about pastors, I don't remember where it was. Now I want to say 2 Corinthians. I don't know, but it talks about pastors and teachers and it kind of has them all conjoined in as one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but continue. So I mean, between those two roles you know, you think about like pastorship and what does it mean to be a pastor and what all does it take? And I wanted to say here in the beginning minutes of this podcast is that it is not something to be taken lightly. I don't believe it's not something that is just, hey man, they needed a pastor, so I'm going to pastor. I think that it takes a specific calling to do that.
Speaker 1:Now, people would disagree with me. People say, well, anybody can be the pastor. Now, people would disagree with me. People say, well, anybody can be the pastor. And I guess when I say calling, I'm not necessarily meaning that everybody who's a pastor. God just shined a light from heaven and said you shall be a pastor.
Speaker 1:But I think that there's characteristics that God placed in each of us and there are characteristics of being a pastor or how to be a pastor. You know, when you're an elder or a pastor, you have to be a decision maker. You have to be one that cares and prays for the sick, the hurting, the ones who need your help. You have to be humble, you have to have spirituality, you need to be on fire for God, spiritual guardian, and then you need to be a teacher excuse me or a preacher. I think all of those role, all of those characteristics and all of those things fit into the role of pastorship.
Speaker 1:Now, if you want to be a pastor just because you're a good preacher, that's just not good enough To me. I don't think that that's good enough to the church that you potentially could be pastoring. If you're someone who prays, well, that's just not necessarily good enough. I mean, it's a part of it but it's not good enough. But if you can pray with others, have compassion for others, be a decision maker, be someone who is a spiritual guardian, be a teacher and a preacher, if you show all those characteristics and display those things or cultivate and work on those things, then that, if you're wondering what God's calling is, that could potentially be something that God uses for you to be a pastor.
Speaker 2:Brother Sean, yeah, and I'd also add to that, you know, on looking to be a pastor, just being humble and being a servant. You know, a lot of times I shouldn't say a lot, I use that phrase way too much, y'all forgive me. A lot of times to him, a lot of times to me, there are times where you know there are pastors and people in leadership that aren't humble and it's my way or the highway that don't have the servant's heart, that aren't up there to be a servant for the church and be the shepherd and looking out, but they're up there for control. And when I look at pastors and when I look for one that I think might would be a good pastor, I look for the servants. Who has a servant? Who's willing to go out there and help, who's willing to go, put the chairs up when it's time and I'm not saying that everybody has to, but you can tell the ones that are sincere about it as well. And I think that kind of follows over on the evangelists, which that's another podcast.
Speaker 2:I guess Paul was more or less a missionary slash evangelist and he had more control over some of the churches and the pastors did. But you know, when I see evangelists and preachers and all these things. I'm not looking for the flavor of the month, right. I'm looking to see who's ready to lead. Yeah, you're right, I'm looking to see who's honest about it. But I'm looking to see for somebody who can teach me. I'm looking for somebody who's willing to serve the church as well as lead the church.
Speaker 1:I think that that's what's sort of wrong with a lot of your—every one of these get us in trouble, man. I'm telling you every time we're live I'm like I'm going to say something that gets us in trouble. But you know what? It wouldn't be the first time. I think a lot of your churches that are smaller or churches that are seeking a pastor maybe they're larger I think that that's where they make a mistake when they're going to pick a pastor for their church, as I said, well, this dude preached thousands of churches in, you know, zimbabwe, africa. Like that's not a good enough reason to be a pastor. This person went all over the United States and preached with, you know, holy Ghost fire and he was anointed and we want that. I'm sorry, but that's not a good enough reason to be a pastor or to ask someone to be your pastor.
Speaker 2:It's great that they have the Holy Ghost. It's great that they're on fire.
Speaker 1:It's great that they're preaching, but that doesn't mean that. Yeah, and if you look at qualifications, there are those obviously within the Bible. We're going to discuss some of those, but then there are also those characteristics If you have someone who is not humble and they're just doing it to to be the preacher and to get that paycheck then we're going to have. He said paycheck as soon as I did, didn't you?
Speaker 2:That's crazy.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. We're, we're, we're anointed today, but we should be, pastors.
Speaker 2:If that is, profit is in part of being a pastor. If that is, profit is in part of being a pastor and preacher, isn't it?
Speaker 1:If that is the reason why you are wanting to be a pastor, then you're doing it for the wrong reasons. You have to have a love for people and can I tell you something real quick it has to be there's got to be a little bit of longevity with it as well. You can't say I love these people and then one year later, not love those people. There needs to be something in you that is consistently growing and if you love them, then you need to ask God to continue for that to blossom in your heart Because you love them today, as a pastor, you should love them in 10 years, no matter what they do to you, no matter if they hurt you, no matter if they hurt your church or whatever, no matter if they're not going there anymore. You should still love them and care for them. To believe that because you've mastered the art of preaching, that all of a sudden that qualifies you to master the art of pastoring is a grave mistake I believe a lot of ministers make. There are qualifications. There are things that people are soon to be or desire to be pastors need. They need to have a love and prayer I said it before for the sick, but, as Sean said, they need to have humility. It's not about me, it's about Christ. It's not about me. It's about what I can do to help reach someone for Christ, and humility starts. Humility is the foundation for all of that. If you really want to pray for the sick, you're going to have to be humble of that. If you really want to pray for the sick, you're going to have to be humble. If you truly want to preach and teach lessons and messages that are designed to not stir up the crowd, not yell and scream and run around the building, not designed to do any of those things, but that are designed to help or potentially help people, all of that's going to come from the heart of humility. But the opposite of humility says I can preach good, therefore I can pastor. I can get people stirred up, therefore I'm doing a good job as pastor. No, people are people.
Speaker 1:Monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday, saturday and Sunday. They have lives, they have needs that they need prayers for. They have troubles that they need counsel over. They have different difficult circumstances that they're facing every day. That you're waiting for Sunday to preach that sermon so that they get help is just not going to cut it. They need help today and I think that we need to get that in our head. Brother Sean had no idea I was going to harp on this as much tonight, and I don't know if I did either, but I think that if you're desiring to pastor, you need to keep that in mind, brother Sean.
Speaker 2:I think if you're desiring any position, you need to keep that in mind For sure, and I'm sure we'll get to a lot of it. Yeah, but as a preacher, as a deacon, as a song leader, as a instrument player, as a Sunday school teacher a lot of you all know that I teach Sunday school for the teenagers at my church and Jonathan is the Brother Jonathan. I'll say on this one time Brother Jonathan is the youth leader.
Speaker 1:Is that your title?
Speaker 2:Youth pastor. Youth pastor. Ooh, he got an upgrade. I better start calling him brother. Is there a youth?
Speaker 1:pastor over here.
Speaker 2:Doctor actually? No, I ain't going that far.
Speaker 2:But you know, jonathan can be the youth pastor there and without all these things that he just talked about, you know being humble, wanting to help others, and you know how long would you give him Six months a year before he's out Because some kids in there were doing something and I don't know. I mean, I know a few of his youth, so I'm not calling anybody out, but you know my Sunday school class. How long would it have been if I wasn't coming in there ready to help and ready to serve. I've been there several years now. There are Sundays, just like everybody else, where there's only three of them in there. There's also Sundays where there's 23 of them in there and obviously we look forward to the 23. But having that heart for it is, for whatever position it is, I think is very vital.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we're going to talk about congregants, but having a heart for those foundational pillars of your church as well, I know, I think that we sort of we put them in a way on the back burner because it's like, oh, they've been going here forever and they come to every service and it's like we need to try to win these new people. And I get it. I want to win new people, I want to bring new converts, but there are some pillars of your church that sometimes they need that teaching and preaching as well, and sometimes they need, you know, sometimes it's only those three there instead of the 23, like Sean was talking about. But those, those same kids, youth, adults, they they need that same amount of love and care, because it's like, man, if I had three youth and I have, I've had three or four youth in our youth group before but I'm like I'm going to preach and teach the same, because what have I changed? One of their hearts and what do they go on to win millions of people for God, like, like I'm making a difference in just one person.
Speaker 1:And yeah, it it takes that, that sort of commitment, that sort of drive You're like. Well, how do you know? Because I've pastored a church for Brother Sean. Isn't that crazy I always love. My favorite thing ever is I'm sorry. Yeah, my favorite thing ever is for individuals like. I'll say something about pastors like, well, you don't know anything about it. I'm like, actually, I do know just a little bit about it. I failed miserably, I feel like, but God was good and God was merciful.
Speaker 2:Do you need to apologize to the township?
Speaker 1:Yes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. God was good and God was merciful. No, no, no, no. God was good and God was merciful. But I do know, to an extent at least, what it takes to do that. Excuse me, I'm so sorry, I keep coughing that loud noise, hacking, that's me. But outside of the elders, bishops, pastors, whatever you want to call yourself, you know, bishop, youth pastor, john Rich is what they typically call me Not really, but I want to talk about deacons as well.
Speaker 2:I got called the youth pastor, did you really Like?
Speaker 1:a month ago I was like no, no, no Time out, not even close.
Speaker 2:And they were like well, you teach the teenager? And I said Sunday school teacher. Nobody said anything about youth pastor.
Speaker 1:Youth Sunday school teacher. Thank you very much. I want to talk about deacons as well, and of course you guys are. I know everybody wants to talk about the congregants and the pastor, like I know that's where it's at. But there is a middle ground here, and the Bible talks about deacons and the Bible talks about deacons. So the origin of the term deacon comes from the Greek word diakonio, meaning through the dirt, and it refers to serving, attending or ministering to others. So I'm putting this out there. I need somebody to listen to this. Your pastor is not the only one that needs to do the work. Your pastor is not the only one that needs to love people and pray for people. You also need to do that as a deacon, as a member or leader of the board, and maybe your nickname is not deacon, maybe your nickname is worship leader, or maybe your nickname is Sunday school teacher, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:Maybe, your title is worship leader, or maybe your nickname is Sunday school teacher. Whatever it is, maybe your title is benchwarmer, maybe your title is benchwarmer yeah, but whatever it is, your goal is also to love the people. I can't tell you how many churches I've been to. I can't tell you how many places I've been where the deacons were always behind the scenes. You didn't even know who they were. They counted the money and took up the offering and that was it, and they made decisions in the church. Listen, deacons, your role is much more than counting money. Your role is much more than making decisions in the church.
Speaker 1:I feel very blessed. I feel like a lot of you know the de making decisions in the church. I feel very blessed. I feel like a lot of the deacons in our church I am biased and I'm going to brag I feel like a lot of them do put a lot of work in and I see them mowing yards and see them greeting and see them driving the golf cart to pick, you know, congregants up to bring them to the door. I love all of that and I'm very appreciative of that. But you know, as the church body as a whole and different churches all over the United States and all over the world.
Speaker 1:As a deacon, it is your responsibility to also care for people. There are people that your pastor is not always going to get to, you know. I think the pastor should try, obviously, but there are people that come into a church service while pastor's preaching and they come in and sit down. They need to be tended to, to be loved for and cared for, sometimes by the deacon. Hey, how are you doing? Go sit by them, tell them who you are when they leave, or get up before pastor's done preaching and they leave, tell them thank you for coming Like, show that you care, because it is just as important, I feel like, as it is for that pastor to be up there preaching.
Speaker 2:Brother Sean, one of our newest members at our church I guess I can call him a member now. He's been coming for pastor to be up there preaching. Brother Sean, one of our newest members at our church I guess I can call him a member now. He's been coming for maybe a couple months now, as best he can, but he showed up to church and he got to know about us because somebody took a actually it was a PB&J van.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you've met this gentleman yet, but Brother Hugh, a guy in our church, amazing individual. If anybody knows, he may not want to be associated with this podcast. No, he's awesome, Brother Hugh. He's a phenomenal man, always giving, always helping. But he took the mission or not the mission but one of the PB&J vans to get it fixed and took it to a guy to have him work on it and they created or they established that relationship through that and that's what Jonathan's talking about here. I'm not tearing my pastor down when I say this, but my pastor's not going to come pick up one of the vans for the outreach works that we do and go take it to a mechanic. I believe he would if he was asked to, but that's not necessarily his role right now. Somebody else. Yeah, I'll go get it, and that's Brother Hugh. Brother Hugh's going to do it.
Speaker 2:And now we've got a gentleman coming to our church that probably I mean best I can understand probably never would have went to our church. He lives four miles, I think. Four miles from the church. Yeah, very close. But he's there not because of the pastor, but because somebody took a few extra minutes to go. It was dropping a van off, but when they asked, hey, what is this PB&J, tell me a little bit about it, opened up an opportunity for him to be able to witness. Yeah, and here comes the train guys. Yeah, the train making noise in the background.
Speaker 1:Go ahead unless you're just waiting on the train making noise in the background. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Unless you're just waiting on the train. No, I was waiting on it. I thought you were done. Yeah, no, I was just trying to just throw it out there that you know there are people that we'll never be able to reach, and I've told my class that as well. Yeah, you know, they're in school right now. A lot of them are, and I've told them. So there's people that I'll never, may never, meet. You know, if you go to a public school, or even if you go to a private school, you're putting yourself in situations that I may never get to. You know when's the next time that I'll ever go to a public school? I mean, unless I'm called, never. But you have an opportunity to be part of that. So just you know, even if you don't hear us call out your role or your title here, just know that it's still very important and it all needs to point back to Christ.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of my favorite quotes is many hands make light work. Eyes, yeah, one of my favorite quotes is many hands make light work. And I think that all the pastor does have several different roles and the pastor does have characteristics that are, I believe, required to be a pastor. The pastor cannot do everything Just like you have they just can't.
Speaker 2:You're required of things to be a Christian.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and that's what I'm getting at, sorry.
Speaker 1:No you're good. I mean, we're about to get to that here in a moment when we talk about congregants but I think that people expect pastors to look. If you're a growing church, you've got 15 people in there. Your pastor does not need to be doing everything. You also need to be doing some things. You also need to be working together. If your pastor is the only one that is praying with people, if your pastor is the only one that's visiting the sick and the hurting, if your pastor is the only one going door to door telling people about Christ, inviting them to the church, if your pastor is the only one taking a bus to go pick up young people, to bring them into Sunday school, if he or she is the only one to do those things, then there's a problem.
Speaker 1:You as a congregant, and especially you as a deacon, should be doing those same things. I wanted to talk about different roles or characteristics that deacons should have as well, and then I want to talk about congregants. I think that's really important. Obviously, as a deacon, you should have a biblical background. You should have the Bible tells us. You should be blameless, you should have good character, you should have a faithful spouse. In that, you are a good household manager. You should be honest, respectful, not greedy, not addicted to alcohol.
Speaker 2:No, that's not what it says. I think it says not given to much wine, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, not given to much wine. Yeah, so a little bit, a little bit. It's this guy. Yeah, not given to much wine. Yeah, so a little bit, a little bit. It's this guy. Yeah, we are alive, brother, we're going to get kicked off so fast? No, but I'm assuming Sean's joking here. Okay, I can't ask him and pause. Yeah, we don't know. You haven't been to my house in a couple years, but there are qualifications for a deacon and I think that we just had one viewer leave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we did, didn't we? It needs to be said and it needs to be shown that deacons are I'm not going to say just as or more or little or less than pastors, but they have a huge responsibility as well within the church, especially when doing the work of God. I wanted to move on real quick. There's so many different little things that we could talk about, and I've got scripture for a lot of it. But I think that it's also important to look at the purpose of the church as a church body and to look at the purpose of congregants and those who attend the church, and especially those who are saved, who believe in Christ, who are followers of Christ. It's important as a church to fellowship among believers. It's important as a church to pray.
Speaker 1:Churches don't pray anymore. I know that sounds very matter-of-fact and it also sounds very blanket statement-ish, but I am willing to bet that, percentage-wise, it's going to show that and I'm sure there are studies out there. But it's going to show that churches just don't pray, not, hey. They don't come to prayer meeting, not hey. They don't come to the altar after we're done preaching, but they just don't pray. They have no prayer life in the church, but they specifically don't have prayer life outside of the church, and I think that that's a problem, Brother Sean.
Speaker 1:I mean, it is very and vitally important. It is the lifeblood that connects you to God and allows God to speak to you and, at times, speak through you. So developing a prayer life as a church member is important Proclaiming the gospel, helping individuals and ministering to individuals in need. I just mentioned that. I'm going to mention it again. If your pastor is the only one proclaiming the gospel, you are not being a follower of Christ. Is it James 2 and 3? It's James 1 and 27. I don't know where I got 2 and 3? It's James 1 and 27.
Speaker 1:If pastors are, I don't know where I got 2 and 3 from. I don't know if I think that's the same one.
Speaker 2:that you're thinking of.
Speaker 1:If pastors Is it right, is it the same one? No, it's a different one. That one was way off. We won't talk about the one he just pulled up. If pastors are the only one ministering to those in need, then you are not following Christ. If pastors are the only one that are praying, you are not following Christ. Christ was a man who prayed. Christ was a man who proclaimed the good news. Christ was a man who ministered those who were in need. The Bible tells us in 1 James, 1 and 27,. Or do you have that, or is it something else?
Speaker 2:Well, I did have it, and now my phone's.
Speaker 1:He's all over the place. Now the Bible tells us and Sean will read it in James 1, 27,. This is what it says.
Speaker 2:Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father. Is this to visit the fatherless and widows in their reflection and to keep himself unspotted from the world?
Speaker 1:And I think that the Bible says that, but that is portrayed through Jesus. Through Jesus, you cannot tell me that you belong to a strong church if your church does not care for the orphan and the widow and the needy and the homeless and the addicted and the children who are impoverished. You can't tell me that your church is on fire for God if on Sunday mornings and Sunday nights and Wednesday nights you have shout-down services but Monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday and Saturday, there is no fruit, there is no helping those who are poor, there is no helping those that are in need. You do not have a church. You have something that is a display. You have something that is trying to portray a church. But a true church is not necessarily one that has a shout-down service. Every time they have a service, it is one that, when God ministers to you, I take that bread that he ministers to me and I share that bread with those who need ministering to as well.
Speaker 2:Brother Sean, and I would encourage I mean I encourage reading the Bible, but I would encourage those that are maybe wanting to study this a little more or have questions about themselves in the church to go read James 1. You know, we read the very last scripture, but all throughout James, chapter 1, it's being doers upholding perfect law of liberty. Bridling not your tongue, I mean deceiving your heart, I mean. It just goes on and on and on. So it's a very powerful chapter for that.
Speaker 2:But you know, as a church member and I've heard this before and I'm sure a lot of you have but just because you're a quote lay member or bench warmer, that's no reason to sit back and just hold on. You know, as, as Jonathan was saying, it's, we all have a call to action. You know whether it's. You know, whatever the case may be, I mean we have some people that clean our sanctuary. I believe they do it once a week. I could be wrong, but they do that to be help and it seems so small. But I guarantee if they didn't do it for a couple weeks, you would find some cereal under my bench, because one of my kids ended up with something, and there'd be Kleenexes all scattered around and the trash cans would start overflowing and they're behind the scenes. You never know that they're there. You know they may come on a Thursday night or Friday night or whatever it is, but it's something that's done to help with the kingdom and I commend those that even do those kind of things that seem to go unthanked.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of going off here, but if you do, if you run sound, trust me, I know that's a pretty thankless job. I used to do it.
Speaker 1:The only time you're paid attention to when you run sound is when it's bad yeah.
Speaker 2:Or they're singing the chorus and you're still on the first verse. Right, everybody looks back at you and you're still on the first verse. Right right, right. Everybody looks back at you. You're looking down at your phone.
Speaker 2:Change it. But you know, I encourage you to stay with it, keep holding on, yeah, and continue to do those things, because, even if man doesn't always see it, god does yeah. Those things, because, even if man doesn't always see it, god does yeah, and that's part of being the body of Christ. If you're doing those things, you may not at that moment, you may not be preaching the gospel, or proclaiming the gospel, as you said, or equipping others to live holy, or doing fellowshipping among believers, any of those things, but you're still being a part of the body of Christ and that is something that is very commendable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think we've said it a million times probably on this podcast in general over the span of many, many episodes. But I think it's commendable when you make it up in your mind that I'm going to work for Christ, regardless of if I get the credit or regardless of if I'm seen, but I'm going to do something. You know, if, if you're most of you, you're driving think about driving a car and it's like all you do is you get in, you you turn the ignition on and you go and then, um, the moment, brother Sean and I were actually at B-dubs a couple of weeks ago when we we got out to, uh, we got out to my car and we went to go start it and it didn't start and I was like man, so open the hood and my battery cable was was loose, really bad, and, um, I didn't think about any of that until I opened the hood and my battery cable was loose, really bad, and I didn't think about any of that until I opened the hood and it's like whoa, what's going on there?
Speaker 2:Until it won't start.
Speaker 1:Until it won't start. Yeah, and most of you are the same way. You get in the car and you start the car and you drive wherever and it's until something goes wrong or you have to replace something that you don't realize. You open that hood, hood and you see all of these big mechanical pieces and then you see all of these really, really little mechanical pieces and you would think that that little mechanical piece, like a spark plug, like that, that tall, maybe you just screw it in. That's how tall it is. It's not that big a deal and it's on top of an engine that's like this big. You know bigger. We're not mechanically inclined. Well, some of them are bigger, but some of them aren't that big.
Speaker 2:But what I'm saying is I think I'm going to say this and then you can keep going. I think of a gasket. Yeah, I mean, you talk about spark plugs, but when you started talking, I thought of a gasket. Yeah, I mean, they're less than a 16-inch thick, but without that, yeah, oh, you got a lot of trouble. Yeah, go ahead, keep going.
Speaker 1:A lot of trouble.
Speaker 2:You said the smallest, tiny and I thought of this Just minuscule piece of.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, you open that up and you see that and realize that even that little gasket, that little spark plug, they serve a huge, huge, huge purpose. They're not really seen, you've got to dig to get to them, but they serve a huge purpose. Sometimes the work that you're doing for God is not going to be magnified in front of everybody else. Sometimes it's not going to be behind a pulpit preaching to thousands of people and seeing thousands of souls come to the altar. It's not going to be that. Sometimes it's going to be something small, like cleaning. Sometimes it's going to be which, by the way, it's not small to clean. I have done cleaning the church before. I hated it. I would do it again if pastor asked me. Not a fan of it, pastor, if you're watching.
Speaker 2:Hey, pastor Sam Jonathan just volunteered yeah.
Speaker 1:It is not a small thing, but it could be something as little as sending a text message to a new church member, or sending a text message to someone who used to come to church there. Say I'm praying for you. Say, how are you doing? Hey, do you want to meet up for lunch later? You think that no one else sees that, and because no one else sees that, that means that it's not helping this big machine go, and that's not true. We need those little things. We need those little things. We need those little conversations, we need those small prayers. We need those small moments to help build the kingdom of God, just as much as we need that person behind the pulpit preaching, just as much as we need that person in a place of leadership, like a deacon or an elder. We need the church as well, brother Sean.
Speaker 2:And that happens inside the church and outside of the church. He's talking about those small things where it doesn't seem like you're recognized. That small thing could be please and thank you. Yeah, yeah, to your waiter. I think that a lot of that stuff we've lost and I still think, respected it should be taught and it should be portrayed, especially by Christians. Yeah, you know, this is something that that again, this is something that we've talked about several times when you're hateful, or maybe not even hateful, just not grateful and not just ungrateful, thankful not expressing then they see that they recognize those kind of things and being that outside of the church can make a huge difference.
Speaker 2:Again, go back to Brother Hugh. He wasn't in the church house when all that went down. Is he one of the first people that goes up and shakes your hand if you're a visitor that comes in? Yes, he is, and he'll ask you what your name is and he'll shake all your kids' hands and ask how old they are and what they like and what their favorite color is.
Speaker 2:He used to be my neighbor and sometimes it would irritate me because as soon as he would pull up in the driveway, my kids would run out the door without even telling me, and they would come back with a Popsicle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I'm like where'd you get it, the Popsicle guy? Yeah, the Popsicle guy. They didn't even know it was Brother Hugh, but they found out. He found out what their favorite color was, and I promise you was, and I promise you he had 150 plus popsicles in his freezer. But he would pull up and he'd see the kids running over there and he'd go out there and tell them you want a pink one, you want a blue one, right? Okay, just a minute. And he'd run in the house and he would dig through the fridge I guarantee it would not surprise me one bit if he would ever went in there and couldn't find the color, so went and bought a new box of them, even though there was still a dozen of them left, so those kids could have a pink one and a blue one, or whatever their colors are, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Inside the church, outside of the church, that's Brother Hugh, and you'll know exactly who he is, because he's the same and he's going to treat everybody the same. He's going to show the love of Christ, doesn't matter, pb&j walking down the street, running into a Walmart, in the church house, doesn't matter. That's Brother Hugh and that's what we all need to be. I strive to be like Brother Hugh.
Speaker 1:I think we should end with this question, unless you have more. You interrupt me, but with this question of like, what is your persona inside the church versus outside of the church? You know what is your, what are your characteristics? Are they Christ-like? Are they loving? Are they, are they kind? You play an important role as a pastor. You play an important role as a deacon and as apostle and as a prophet. You play an important role as a deacon and as an apostle and as a prophet. You play an important role as these things in the kingdom of God. But just as a simple congregant, as someone who just goes, you're like I just go to church, that's it. I'm a nobody. You know what. You're somebody for God. You can do something for God, but think about that Everybody has somebody watching them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Everybody does. Even if you don't think that you do, somebody is watching you. Yes, I've got an 8-year-old, a 6-year-old, a 4-year-old and a 1-year-old, and my 8-year-old daughter and my 6-year-old son for sure. See some teenagers some 12, 13, 14, 15-year-olds walk in the church. My son will be like Dad, can I go sit by? So-and-so, like he's not here yet. Yeah, he is. I just saw him walk in. I'm going to go sit by him. They sit up front. Can I go sit with them when they sing for songs? Absolutely, you can.
Speaker 1:Everybody has somebody watching them. Go ahead, no, it's so true. And everybody has someone that looks up to them, you know, and wants to pattern their life after them sometimes. So just think of that, remember that and are you being Christ-like inside and outside of the church? I think that that will conclude our episode. I didn't see any comments or questions on there. We appreciate everyone who's been watching and keeping up. Again. I'm going to mention this one more time, but here on Monday, February the 10th, I'm going to put that up on the screen here.
Speaker 1:But Monday, February the 10th, at 7 pm Central Standard Time, we are going to have a debate between Nathan Mayo of Berean Holiness and Luke Beetz, who is a holiness evangelist and a campus preacher. They're going to be debating about doctrine, standards and the gospel. If you want to know what the resolution is for that debate, go to our Facebook page by searching the Every Day that's the Every Day Christian Podcast and go look at the last few posts that we put on there. We talk about that. If you have a question for that debate, if you're wondering what it means, if you have a burning question that you've thought of that no one really has given you the correct answer for, or at least not a biblical or clear, concise answer for that you would like to submit to these debaters? Please comment below or send us a direct message.
Speaker 1:There's been several that have bravely commented on the post themselves and several who have bravely messaged just as well. So if you would like to have a question submitted for that, let me rephrase not rephrase, but let me re-say that If you would like a question, not I'm giving a comment on what I feel about these two people, not I'm giving my opinion on this subject, none of that. If you have a question for the debaters, please, please, please, reach out to us, and you have until Friday to do so. Brother Sean, do you have anything to add to that? No, sir, Praise God. Well, I want to thank everybody who has listened in and joined us, and we pray that you have a wonderful evening and an everyday Christian Podcast is out.
Speaker 2:God bless, thank you, thank you.
